[mew-int 00685] problem while fetching mail
Werner LEMBERG
1509-242 at example.com
Fri Jan 11 16:59:38 JST 2002
The attached two mails can't be fetched from my
/var/spool/mail/sx0005 file, pressing the `i' button -- I get
No new messages (2 messages left)
If I remove the first mail, everything works OK. Looks like a bug in
one of mew's binaries...
This is not the first time I get this behaviour, so it isn't a new
bug. Interestingly, it seems to be dependent on the file's time stamp
(but this is just my assumption). While copying around the file for
testing purposes, I was suddenly able to fetch both mails. Then, I
copied it again, touched it, and I got the buggy behaviour.
Hope that helps.
Werner
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Thu, 10 Jan 2002 01:24:56 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 01:24:55 -0800
From: Edward Cherlin <cherlin at example.com>
Subject: Re: Unicode, character ambiguities
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On Tuesday 08 January 2002 08:58 pm, you wrote:
> Followup to:
> <522121065.1010551480675.JavaMail.root at example.com> By
> author: starner at example.com
> In newsgroup: linux.utf8
>
> > > Character Set Encoding of Tags:
> > > ===============================
> > >
> > > UTF-8 is the default encoding for tag data. Unfortunately
> > > UTF-8 muffed it for Asian languages by doing the equivalent of
> > > giving the same character codes to English, Russian, and Greek
> > > letters.
I have followed this debate for several years. I think the Japanese
experts in the Ideographic Rapporteur Group did a wonderful job on
Han Unification. Even the Japanese anti-unification stalwarts admit
that
the characters they find troublesome would not have been considered
difficult by anyone educated before 1950,
there are only a small number of characters of concern, primarily
U+76F4 (Mathews 1004, Nelson 775) and characters containing it, and
the problem only arises when multilingual plain text is displayed in
an inappropriate font.
Since the author can control the font in formatted text, and the user
can control the font in viewing plain text, I don't see the problem.
(To which opponents of unification reply, "_That_'s the problem", so
we don't get anywhere.)
On the other hand, I have never heard anyone other than a
mathematician complain about the unification of Fraktur and other
writing styles for the Latin alphabet, even though Fraktur is
extremely difficult for Americans and even younger Germans to read.
Fraktur will evidently be disunified in Unicode 4.0 for use in
variable names in math, but _not_ for text.
> > It's interesting that Japanese and Chinese, which are unrelated
> > languages, are sometimes mutually understandable when written,
> > but somehow use totally different scripts.
Almost all Japanese characters came from China, although there are a
few indigenous creations such as the character for mountain pass
(touge) and a number of simplified characters that appeared first in
Japan. Kana is of course a purely Japanese invention.
> Also, there would hardly have been any hurt feelings if U+0065
> (Latin), U+0391 (Greek), and 0+0410 (Cyrillic) had been unified.
> It would just not have saved enough code points to bother.
Actually, it was impossible because of the source separation rule
applied to Chinese, Korean, and Japanese encodings, including Big
Five, GB2312, KSC, and JIS. (How ironic.) These standards include
various combinations of Latin, Greek, and Cyrillic alphabets in
separate code blocks alongside Hanzi, Zhuyin, Hangul, and kana. So
LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A, CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER A, and GREEK CAPITAL
LETTER ALPHA cannot be unified without breaking round-trip conversion
for these standards.
On the other hand, Kurdish Cyrillic Q has been unified with Latin,
since there was no pre-existing character set standard containing
both at separate code points. There is, for example, no
KOI-8-K(urdish).
> As far as "English" and "Russian" are concerned, the various
> Latin-script and the various Cyrillic-script languages have been
> unified for a long, long time.
Do you mean each group separate from the other? Otherwise I can't
make sense of this.
> Things like U+212A and U+212B should never have been allowed to
> happen, on the other hand, IMNSHO.
(KELVIN SIGN and ANGSTROM SIGN)
Source separation rule, again. We're stuck with them in the standard,
but we don't have to use them, or any of the other Compatibility
Characters and Presentation Forms. Anyway, the true worst case was
the encoding of more than 11,000 Hangul syllables, none of which is
required.
> -hpa
Better an imperfect but entirely usable standard than no standard.
--
Edward Cherlin
edward at example.com
Does your Web site work?
--
Linux-UTF8: i18n of Linux on all levels
Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-utf8/
>From linux-utf8-bounce at example.com Fri Jan 11 01:48:37 2002
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 04:46:42 -0500
From: Glenn Maynard <g_lutf8 at example.com>
To: linux-utf8 at example.com
Subject: Re: Unicode, character ambiguities
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> Saying about round-trip compatibility, yes, round-trip compatibility
> for EUC-JP, EUC-KR, Big5, GB2312, GBK are guaranteed, i.e., Unicode
> is a superset of these encodings (character sets). However,
> (1) there are no authorative mapping tables between these encodings
> and Unicode and there are various private mapping tables. This
> can cause portability problem around round-trap compatibility.
On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 06:18:10PM +0900, Tomohiro KUBOTA wrote:
> For reference of glyph, I am using
> http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=f9b1
> and so on. Otherwise, displayed glyphs depend on system and
> we cannot discuss about same glyph.
By the way, I notice this page contains "mappings to major standards"
including Big5 and GB 2312. Also, JIS, and I assume there's established
mappings between JIS and EUC-JP, and probably for the other languages,
too.
"The mappings to major standards have been exhaustively proofed and are
a normative part of Unicode." (http://www.unicode.org/charts/unihan.html)
"A normative part of Unicode" sounds very authoritative; am I missing
something?
--
Glenn Maynard
--
Linux-UTF8: i18n of Linux on all levels
Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-utf8/
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